Sunday, March 18, 2012

2613.txt

cc: <alanatXYZxyz.reading.ac.uk>, <alan.thorpeatXYZxyzoffice.com>, <dave.griggsatXYZxyzoffice.com>, <mike.nortonatXYZxyzyo.mail.fco.gov.uk>, <m.hulmeatXYZxyz.ac.uk>
date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:00:20 +0100
from: "Christopher West" <ccwatXYZxyzc.ac.uk>
subject: Japan's Earth Simulator
to: "Trevor Guymer" <THGatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>

Glad we spoke this morning.

Attached as background:
1. My original naive query;
2. Alan Thorpe's helpful reply;
3. Mike Norton's additions and corrections
4. Mike Norton's latest.

I hope you five (Guymer, Griggs, Hulme, Thorpe and O'Neill) can get
dates sorted and get out to Japan. If I can help, please let me know,
otherwise Good Luck!

Please keep me informed of what happens.

Chris

Chris West,
NERC International Relations Group
Tel: +44 1793 411740
Fax: +44 1793 411691
email: c.westatXYZxyzc.ac.ukDate: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:38:20 +0000
From: "Christopher West" <CCWatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>
To: "John Pyle" <pyleatXYZxyz.ch.cam.ac.uk>,
"Tim Lenton" <tlentatXYZxyz.ac.uk>,
"Alan O'Neill" <alanatXYZxyz.reading.ac.uk>,
"Alan Thorpe" <ajthorpeatXYZxyzo.gov.uk>,
"Adrian New" <ANWatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
"John Shepherd" <JGSatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
"Jochem Marotzke" <JYM.SOC.NERCatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
"Peter Killworth" <PKIatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
"Mike Hulme" <m.hulmeatXYZxyz.ac.uk>,
"Angela Morrison" <AJM.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Alan Davies" <AMD.POL.BidstonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Chris Franklin" <CFR.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Christopher Baker" <CKB.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Graham Leeks" <GJLL.IH.WallingfordatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Ian Newton" <INE.ITE.Monks#032#WoodatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"John Baker" <JHBA.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Mark Venn" <MWV.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Nigel Collins" <NRC.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"Phil Heads" <PHHE.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>
Cc: "Mike Norton" <mike.nortonatXYZxyzyo.mail.fco.gov.uk>,
"David Brown" <DAB.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
"David Lynn" <DWL.HQ.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>
Subject: Japan's Earth Simulator
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1.
During Lord Sainsbury's visit to Japan, He and OST Officials were
shown the new(ish) Earth Simulator and they reported, in caricature,
that they have a super machine, in a Faraday Cage, in a building with
no external computer wires, due to a paranoia about someone hacking
in, but very little modelling going on.

Additionally, the Japanese appeared to be averse to working with
anyone else. It sounds like a familiar story; Japan has the kit; UK
has the good researchers; how to join them together?

2.
Has anyone got plans or ambitions in relation to this machine? I
would be interested to know, and perhaps you all might want to share
experiences? Please let me know if you have an interest, otherwise I
shall assume none.

3.
Sorry if this is all familiar to you!

4.
(Southampton people only) Is there one of you or someone else whom I
can use as a focus for big modelling questions, or shall I contine
thus?

Chris

Chris West,
NERC International Relations Group
Tel: +44 1793 411740
Fax: +44 1793 411691
email: c.westatXYZxyzc.ac.ukReceived: from mailr-k.nerc.ac.uk
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:13:59 +0000
From: "Thorpe, Alan J" <alan.thorpeatXYZxyzoffice.com>
Subject: RE: Japan's Earth Simulator
To: "'Christopher West'" <ccwatXYZxyzc.ac.uk>
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Chris,

I provided a briefing paper to John Taylor (DGRC) prior to the (his?)
Japan visit. If you haven't seen that I attach it below. The Hadley Centre
IS interested in the Earth Simulator:

1. We would like a similar facility in the UK or in Europe. I am working
with David Fisk's new inter-agency Global Environmental Change committee to
develop a next comprehensive spending review bid for such a UK facility.

2. We have would have some difficulties in using the Earth Simulator in
Japan for all the reasons you mentioned but we do use other people's
computing resources e.g. GFDL in the USA. We'll use as much as is available
wherever! Issues though include the effort we have to expend to convert our
model to run efficiently on the new machine.

3. We have talked many times to the Japanese builders of the ES but with no
real progress. What next - I don't know.

Alan

There have been discussions between the Hadley Centre and Prof. Matsuno (he
visited us in July 1999) about the possibility of collaboration and
cooperation. The backdrop to this is the development of the Japanese Earth
Simulator supercomputer and their Frontier System for Global Change (FRSGC).
We also had a visit from Professor Manabe in May 2000. In addition Michael
Norton in the British Embassy Tokyo has been very helpful in keeping us
up-to-date with developments in Japan. At various times in the last 18
months we have had visits from Japanese individuals who appear to be putting
together bids to use Earth Simulator computer time and wanted to entrain the
Hadley Centre into their bids.

I would summarize various issues as:

1. Professor Matsuno made the point that the FRSGC was just starting
and had relatively few scientists working in this area, certainly compared
to the UK. He felt that he would be in a better position to discuss
collaboration once they had developed their programme further. He may feel
that that time has come.

2. From the Hadley Centre viewpoint we feel, bearing in mind point 1,
that we have most to gain from collaboration if we can gain access and time
on the Earth Simulator to run our climate model. However we would have to
expend considerable effort to port our code onto their machine so we have a
tricky decision to make as to whether it would be worth it. Certainly the
potential power of the Earth Simulator is far in excess of anything we dream
about. The mechanism for us to be allocated time on their machine is
unclear.

3. We work closely with the Centre for Global Atmospheric Modelling
CGAM at the University of Reading. It's a NERC university unit and they use
our climate model. Any collaboration with Japan would need to be jointly
between the Hadley Centre, CGAM and perhaps also the Southampton
Oceanography Centre (SOC).

4. Within Europe we have just received funding from FPV for a Programme
of Integrated Earth System Modelling, PRISM. This will increase the
cooperation on climate modelling in Europe and I know that the coordinator,
Guy Brasseur from the Max Planck Institute Hamburg, has had discussions with
FRSGC on Japanese-Europe collaboration via PRISM.

5. An issue for the Earth Simulator is the data storage and flow. Here
the UK developments in e-science and the Grid are surely relevant. I don't
know if the Japanese have thought extensively about this issue.

6. The bottom line is that the UK will fall well behind Japan in
computing power once the Earth Simulator is up and running. We have much
greater human capital and the UK can fairly boast of being world-leading in
climate prediction and research. Our model is clearly at the forefront. So
collaboration makes sense for us if we can gain access to new computer
resources and for them if the access to UK scientists and intellectual
property is what they want. However the situation is far from straight
forward and this fact perhaps explains why neither side has been as
aggressive as they might have been in pursuing formal collaboration.

7. I know that FRSGC has formal links with US climate partners. This
exists because several senior Japanese climate scientists spent much of
their careers in the US before returning to Japan. This formal link may
mean the Japanese are less enthusiastic about another link this time with
the UK or Europe.

8. One possibility is for us to have a joint workshop. But again from
our side it is not clear, if it were to be about climate science, whether we
would gain much (of course there are outstanding individuals such as Manabe
but we know him quite well anyway). If it were about use of the Earth
Simulator that might be of more interest although a visit to Japan from a
few UK people would be sufficient rather than a full workshop.

Professor Alan Thorpe Director Climate Research
Met Office Hadley Centre London Road Bracknell Berkshire RG12 2SY
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)1344 854701 Fax: +44 (0)1344 854898 Mobile 0776 9648894
E-mail: ajthorpeatXYZxyzo.gov.uk http://www.metoffice.gov.uk


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher West [SMTP:ccwatXYZxyzc.ac.uk]
> Sent: 14 March 2001 10:38
> To: pyleatXYZxyz.ch.cam.ac.uk; Tim Lenton; alanatXYZxyz.reading.ac.uk;
> ajthorpeatXYZxyzoffice.com; Adrian New; John Shepherd; Jochem Marotzke; Peter
> Killworth; m.hulmeatXYZxyz.ac.uk; Angela Morrison; Alan Davies; Chris
> Franklin; Christopher Baker; Graham Leeks; Ian Newton; John Baker; Mark
> Venn; Nigel Collins; Phil Heads
> Cc: mike.nortonatXYZxyzyo.mail.fco.gov.uk; David Brown; David Lynn
> Subject: Japan's Earth Simulator
>
> 1.
> During Lord Sainsbury's visit to Japan, He and OST Officials were
> shown the new(ish) Earth Simulator and they reported, in caricature,
> that they have a super machine, in a Faraday Cage, in a building with
> no external computer wires, due to a paranoia about someone hacking
> in, but very little modelling going on.
>
> Additionally, the Japanese appeared to be averse to working with
> anyone else. It sounds like a familiar story; Japan has the kit; UK
> has the good researchers; how to join them together?
>
> 2.
> Has anyone got plans or ambitions in relation to this machine? I
> would be interested to know, and perhaps you all might want to share
> experiences? Please let me know if you have an interest, otherwise I
> shall assume none.
>
> 3.
> Sorry if this is all familiar to you!
>
> 4.
> (Southampton people only) Is there one of you or someone else whom I
> can use as a focus for big modelling questions, or shall I contine
> thus?
>
> Chris
>
> Chris West,
> NERC International Relations Group
> Tel: +44 1793 411740
> Fax: +44 1793 411691
> email: c.westatXYZxyzc.ac.ukReceived: from mailr-s.nerc.ac.uk
by wpo.nerc.ac.uk; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 01:12:12 +0000
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Message-ID: <D147A40A4856D411BC6C00C0DFA9C453726C40@TOKYO02>
From: Dr Mike Norton <mike.nortonatXYZxyzyo.mail.fco.gov.uk>
To: "'Christopher West'" <ccwatXYZxyzc.ac.uk>, pyleatXYZxyz.ch.cam.ac.uk,
Tim Lenton
<tlentatXYZxyz.ac.uk>, alanatXYZxyz.reading.ac.uk,
ajthorpeatXYZxyzo.gov.uk, Adrian New <ANWatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
John Shepherd <JGSatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
Jochem Marotzke <JYM.SOC.NERCatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>,
Peter Killworth
<PKIatXYZxyz.soton.ac.uk>, m.hulmeatXYZxyz.ac.uk,
Angela Morrison
<AJM.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Alan Davies
<AMD.POL.BidstonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Chris Franklin
<CFR.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Christopher Baker
<CKB.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Graham Leeks
<GJLL.IH.WallingfordatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Ian Newton
<INE.ITE.Monks#032#WoodatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
John Baker
<JHBA.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Mark Venn
<MWV.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Nigel Collins
<NRC.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
Phil Heads
<PHHE.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>
Cc: mike.nortonatXYZxyzyo.mail.fco.gov.uk,
David Brown
<DAB.DST.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>,
David Lynn
<DWL.HQ.SwindonatXYZxyz.nerc.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Japan's Earth Simulator
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 01:13:15 -0000
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Just to add a few facts and comments to Chris' note.

Visitors were DGRC not Lord Sainsbury.

The 40 tflops machine is still being built - due for completion and start of
testing in a year's time - no wonder there is no modelling going on on that
machine - it is going on on the existing Crays in Tokyo.

The mechanism for international access was never realistically through
direct external access - will have to be through collaboration with the
existing modellers - such as the Frontier Group for climate change.

The Environment Minisitry is quite positive to impact research discussion,
not just modelling.

Please do not underestimate the scale of investment in this area - R&D on
earth and the environment is now 78BY - 450M pounds per year and exceeds
even NERC's deep pockets!!.

Mike Norton
Counsellor Science and Technology
British Embassy
Tokyo
Tel. 03-5211-1320 Fax 03-3230-4800
www.uknow.or.jp
Now also available on your mobile phone! www.uknow.or.jp/m


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher West [SMTP:ccwatXYZxyzc.ac.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:38 PM
> To: pyleatXYZxyz.ch.cam.ac.uk; Tim Lenton; alanatXYZxyz.reading.ac.uk;
> ajthorpeatXYZxyzo.gov.uk; Adrian New; John Shepherd; Jochem Marotzke; Peter
> Killworth; m.hulmeatXYZxyz.ac.uk; Angela Morrison; Alan Davies; Chris
> Franklin; Christopher Baker; Graham Leeks; Ian Newton; John Baker; Mark
> Venn; Nigel Collins; Phil Heads
> Cc: mike.nortonatXYZxyzyo.mail.fco.gov.uk; David Brown; David Lynn
> Subject: Japan's Earth Simulator
>
> 1.
> During Lord Sainsbury's visit to Japan, He and OST Officials were
> shown the new(ish) Earth Simulator and they reported, in caricature,
> that they have a super machine, in a Faraday Cage, in a building with
> no external computer wires, due to a paranoia about someone hacking
> in, but very little modelling going on.
>
> Additionally, the Japanese appeared to be averse to working with
> anyone else. It sounds like a familiar story; Japan has the kit; UK
> has the good researchers; how to join them together?
>
> 2.
> Has anyone got plans or ambitions in relation to this machine? I
> would be interested to know, and perhaps you all might want to share
> experiences? Please let me know if you have an interest, otherwise I
> shall assume none.
>
> 3.
> Sorry if this is all familiar to you!
>
> 4.
> (Southampton people only) Is there one of you or someone else whom I
> can use as a focus for big modelling questions, or shall I contine
> thus?
>
> Chris
>
> Chris West,
> NERC International Relations Group
> Tel: +44 1793 411740
> Fax: +44 1793 411691
> email: c.westatXYZxyzc.ac.ukReceived: from mailr-w.nerc.ac.uk
by wpo.nerc.ac.uk; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:01:11 +0100
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Message-ID: <D147A40A4856D411BC6C00C0DFA9C4539775C6@TOKYO02>
From: Dr Mike Norton <mike.nortonatXYZxyz.gov.uk>
Sender: Kaoru Kambe <kaoru.kambeatXYZxyz.gov.uk>
To: "'miles.parkeratXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk'" <miles.parkeratXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk>
Cc: "'Wendy.CarlessatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk'" <Wendy.CarlessatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk>,
"'Iain.MorrowatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk'" <Iain.MorrowatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk>,
"'Beccy.L.EggletonatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk'" <Beccy.L.EggletonatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk>,
"'dave.griggsatXYZxyzoffice.com'" <dave.griggsatXYZxyzoffice.com>,
"'alan.thorpeatXYZxyzc.ac.uk'" <alan.thorpeatXYZxyzc.ac.uk>,
"'m.humeatXYZxyz.ac.uk'"
<m.humeatXYZxyz.ac.uk>,
"'gavin.costiganatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk'"
<gavin.costiganatXYZxyz.gsi.gov.uk>,
"'c.westatXYZxyzc.ac.uk'"
<c.westatXYZxyzc.ac.uk>,
"'j.lawtonatXYZxyzc.ac.uk'" <j.lawtonatXYZxyzc.ac.uk>,
"'nigel.birchatXYZxyzrc.ac.uk'" <nigel.birchatXYZxyzrc.ac.uk>,
Robert Barnett
<Robert.BarnettatXYZxyz.gov.uk>,
Jonathan Thomson
<Jonathan.ThomsonatXYZxyz.gov.uk>
Subject: Lord Sainsbury & Prof Imura meeting progress
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:23:49 +0100
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Dr Parker

Please find attached a letter from Dr Mike Norton.

With regards.

Kaoru Kambe (Ms)
Personal Assistant to Counsellor, Science & Technology
British Embassy Tokyo
Tel: 03-5211-1100 (switchboard); 03-5211-1321 (direct)
Fax: 03-3230-4800
E-mail: kaoru.kambeatXYZxyz.gov.uk


<<Progress of Meeting between Lord Sainsbury & Prof Imura.doc>>

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