Wednesday, March 28, 2012


cc: "Colam-French Jonathan Mr (ISD)" <>
date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:10:02 +0100
from: "Palmer Dave Mr (LIB)" <>
subject: RE: FW: Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_09-44;
to: "Jones Philip Prof (ENV)" <>, "Mcgarvie Michael Mr (ACAD)" <>


Thanks for the very prompt and complete response. While I certainly don't think we will be
passing on all this information to Mr. McIntyre, I suspect we may abbreviate it in some way
for use in response to Mr. McIntyre's appeal, if to only illustrate that our position is
not internally inconsistent. The degree to which we engage with Mr. McIntyre will I'm sure
be a topic of conversation between JCF and myself tomorrow...

Cheers, Dave

From: Phil Jones []
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:51 PM
To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB); Mcgarvie Michael Mr (ACAD)
Cc: Colam-French Jonathan Mr (ISD)
Subject: Re: FW: Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_09-44; EIR_09-03) -
Appeal initial response

I don't recall all the facts from that long ago. There is or was a version on a US
Dept of Energy website from about 1990. This was a contract requirement at the time.
Much extra data has been added since then, and this is what the restrictions refer to
from the mid-to-late 1990s. The 1996 version (cruwlda2) wasn't a complete version and
was something we developed for a number of people in EU projects to use. We made these
available to people on these projects via our ftp site, as it was easier to do this than
sending disks at that time (email attachments were smaller then). I don't have a copy of
that file and I know it wouldn't have had the additional US and Canadian data.
The file newcrustnsall.dat was put there for the Met Office to pick up. We should
have deleted it, but didn't. Despite its name, I'm not sure that it is ALL the stations.
I just checked and it doesn't have the additional US and Canadian data. So if has this
version it isn't the version that produced Jones and Moberg (2003).
Neither of these datasets were explained in the data file. There are lots of codes
with the data and I used to send the details of these codes in emails to people on the
projects and the Met Office.
Since 2003, we've done a lot more work on the data. We removed a lot of duplicates
that had got into the dataset between the late 1990s and 2003 and also added a lot more
data in. We've also modified the codes in the last few years to try and make updating
There are no contradictions in your present refusal. The file newcrustnsall.dat is
the one that has the data that we weren't supposed to pass on.
An issue is that there aren't just versions in 1990, in 1996, in 2003 and now. The
dataset gets updated every month and every 4-6 months we add some more back data in as
we get time. Adding in data is not a trivial task, as we have to assess whether it is OK
and we have to do checks as to whether we already have the data. So even when we get
permission to post the data, it will still change from month to month, just like the
gridded version changes.
At 15:24 08/09/2009, Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) wrote:

This has already been sent to Jonathan by Jane Baker (I believe) and I anticipate that
we will be moving into the 'next phase' of our appeals process involving JCF this week
or next.
As a starter, could you verify/comment on the 'facts' as reported by Mr. McIntyre? Was
an earlier version of the data sent to him 2002? If so, what was it - raw station data
or gridded data? Also - has a set of the raw station data been sent to USDoE?
I am meeting JCF tomorrow and would expect to discuss this matter....

Cheers, Dave

From: Steve McIntyre [[1]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:14 PM
To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB)
Subject: RE: Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_09-44; EIR_09-03) -
Appeal initial response
Dear Mr Palmer,

Thank you for your letter of August 13, 2009. I have been away on holidays for two
weeks and apologize for the delay in replying to your letter.

I am in possession of three earlier versions of the CRU station data. The 1990 version
has been posted at a US Department of Energy website for many years. In September 2002,
I requested a copy of this data from Dr Jones. He sent me a 1996 version (cruwlda2) - a
version that was also posted at the CRU website until recently - and indicated that the
then revised version would posted up when Jones and Moberg (2003) was published, which,
according to the date-stamps at your FTP site was done in Feb 2003, as Dr Jones had
undertaken to do (the data set newcrustnsall recently removed from your public

Notwithstanding this, when Warwick Hughes and Willis Eschenbach requested station data,
for some reason, CRU failed to provide then with this information. As you noted in your
letter, following your recent refusal to provide station data to me, I examined the CRU
FTP site and determined that the newcrustnsall was the version of the station data for
Jones and Moberg 2003 that Dr Jones had previously undertaken to post up on the

While these data sets are of interest, my request was for the current version of the
data set and I do NOT wish to withdraw my appeal of your ruling. Could you please advise
me of Mr Colam-French's email so that I may submit further particulars of the basis of
my appeal. In the mean-time, I would appreciate it if you reflected further about the
apparent contradictions in your present refusal, given Dr Jones' previous provision of
an earlier version of the dataset to me, the posting of two versions of the data set on
your website, one from 1996 to the end of July 2009 and the other from 2003 to the end
of July 2009 and the provision of a version to the US Department of Energy, where it has
been posted on the internet since 1990.


Steve McIntyre

-----Original Message-----
From: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) [[2]]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:29 PM
Subject: Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_09-44; EIR_09-03) -
Appeal initial response
Mr. McIntyre

Further to your email of 24 July 2009, attached please find further information
regarding your request received 26 June 2009. Feel free to contact me if you have
any further questions.

Cheers, Dave Palmer

David Palmer
Information Policy & Compliance Manager
University of East Anglia
Norwich, England
Information Services
Tel: +44 (0)1603 593523
Fax: +44 (0)1603 591010

Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email

No comments:

Post a Comment