from: "Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\)" <David.PalmeratXYZxyz.ac.uk>
subject: FW: Freedom of Information request (FOI_07-04)
to: "Phil Jones" <p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk>, "Mcgarvie Michael Mr \(ACAD\) k364" <M.McgarvieatXYZxyz.ac.uk>
As expected, Mr. Eschenbach is not satisfied with our most recent letter. I guess the
essential question is whether we have the list of actual sites used for HadCRUT3, and if
not, who does.... I would like to avoid a formal appeal process here that will simply
result in where we are at now with the possibility of further appeal to the ICO....
If the information as Mr. Eschenbach describes simply does not exist here, we can report
that and I will, if he still doesn't agree, start the formal process of the appeal....
From: Willis Eschenbach [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:03 AM
To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Information request (FOI_07-04)
Dear Mr. Palmer:
Thank you for your response. However, it does not solve the problem. In your original
response you said:
Your request for information received on 28 September now been considered and I can
report that the information requested is available on non-UEA websites as detailed
The Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN-Monthly) page within US National Climate
Data Centre website provides one of the two US versions of the global dataset and
includes raw station data. This site is at:
This page is where you can get one of the two US versions of the global dataset, and it
appears that the raw station data can be obtained from this site.
Datasets named ds564.0 and ds570.0 can be found at The Climate & Global Dynamics
Division (CGD) page of the Earth and Sun Systems Laboratory (ESSL) at the National
Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) site at: http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/tn404/
Between them, these two datasets have the data which the UEA Climate Research Unit (CRU)
uses to derive the HadCRUT3 analysis. The latter, NCAR site holds the raw station data
(including temperature, but other variables as well). The GHCN would give their set of
station data (with adjustments for all the numerous problems).
They both have a lot more data than the CRU have (in simple station number counts), but
the extra are almost entirely within the USA. We have sent all our data to GHCN, so they
do, in fact, possess all our data.
In accordance with S. 17 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 this letter acts as a
Refusal Notice, and the reasons for exemption are as stated below
s. 21, Information accessible to applicant via other means Some information is
publicly available on external websites
While it is good to know that the data is available at those two web sites, that
information is useless without a list of stations used by Jones et al. to prepare the
HadCRUT3 dataset. As I said in my request, I am asking for:
1) A list of the actual sites used by Dr. Jones in the preparation of the HadCRUT3
2) A clear indication of where the data for each site is available. This is quite
important, as there are significant differences between the versions of each site's data
at e.g. GHCN and NCAR."
Without knowing the name and WMO number of each site and the location of the source data
(NCAR, GHCN, or National Met Service), it is not possible to access the information. Thus,
Exemption 21 does not apply - I still cannot access the data.
I don't understand why this is so hard. All I am asking for is a simple list of the sites
and where each site's data is located. Pointing at two huge piles of data and saying, in
effect, "The data is in there somewhere" does not help at all.
To clarify what I am requesting, I am only asking for a list of the stations used in
HadCRUT3, a list that would look like this:
WMO# Name Source
58457 HangZhou NCAR
58659 WenZhou NCAR
59316 ShanTou GHCN
57516 ChongQing NMS
etc. for all of the stations used to prepare the HadCRUT3 temperature data.
That is the information requested, and it is not available "on non-UEA websites", or
anywhere else that I have been able to find.
I appreciate all of your assistance in this matter, and I trust we can get it resolved
on 4/12/07 5:22 AM, Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) at David.PalmeratXYZxyz.ac.uk wrote:
Further to my letter of 15 March, I attach further information regarding your email of 8
March and the appeal of our decision of 13 February. Don't hesitate to contact me with
queries or concerns.
Cheers, Dave Palmer
Information Policy Officer
University of East Anglia