Saturday, April 14, 2012

3428.txt

cc: i.harrisatXYZxyz.ac.uk
date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:21:37 +0100
from: Philip Brohan <philip.brohanatXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk>
subject: Re: [Fwd: CRU Station Lists]
to: Phil Jones <p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk>

Phil

That figure is made from the same master station list I use for
everything else (5067 stations, 4138 of which have normals and SDs and
contribute to the dataset).

Philip

On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 08:29 +0100, Phil Jones wrote:
> Philip,
> Just checking. You've not got the file(s) with the co-ordinates of the
> stations that produced Figure 1 in the 2006 JGR paper? Or is that
> list 4138?
> I'm going to find out from someone at UCBerkeley if the student
> who requested all the data really is a student.
> Tomorrow, I hope to have some time to decide how to respond.
>
> Cheers
> Phil
>
>
> At 09:25 09/10/2007, philip.brohanatXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk wrote:
> >Phil.
> >
> > OK - I won't do anything, there's no rush.
> >
> >Philip
> >
> >On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 08:20 +0100, Phil Jones wrote:
> > > Philip,
> > > Just back from Australia. Don't do anything just yet - at least
> > > for a few days.
> > > I've some lecturing today and tomorrow, but will get back soon. I'll also
> > > forward something else just arrived.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > > At 16:45 08/10/2007, you wrote:
> > > >Phil, Harry.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry to admit that I can't find the 4349 list, or the program I
> > > >used to find that number. Attempting to reproduce it now, I get the same
> > > >count as you: 4138 stations provide at least 1 observation to CRUTEM3.
> > > > I can't think of any set of 4349 stations that I might have got by
> > > >mistake, so I suspect that it's a typo - It's certainly an error, and
> > > >(unless you object) I'll write to Steve McIntyre to say so (and add a
> > > >note to the CRUTEM3 web page).
> > > >
> > > > On McIntyre's other points: He can get all the near-real-time updates
> > > >from the CRUTEM3 web page
> > > >( http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3/data/station_updates )
> > > > We could also put the source code online - I've copied the internal
> > > >software and documentation to a temporary site so you can see it
> > > >( http://brohan.org/philip/job/crutem3/docs/ - please keep this URL
> > > >secret) - this could be added to http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3 if
> > > >that would help to damp the conspiracy theories. What do you think?
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Philip
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 18:15 +0100, P.JonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk wrote:
> > > > > Harry,
> > > > > Thanks. Hopefully Philip has the 4349 list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just looked at Climate Audit. There is a thread on this.
> > > > > McIntyre not so nice....
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From my project notes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <QUOTE>
> > > > > > Summary of Station Changes
> > > > > > This was effected with the program 'findchanges.for', which
> > > > > > identifies three
> > > > > > categories of station - those added, those changed, and those
> > > > > > deleted. Testing
> > > > > > the entire process (ie comparing the original station file with the
> > > > > > rev10 one)
> > > > > > yielded the following counts:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 28 orig_vs_rev10.add.dat
> > > > > > 483 orig_vs_rev10.chg.dat
> > > > > > 53 orig_vs_rev10.del.dat
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This agrees with the operations performed.
> > > > > > </QUOTE>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm attaching the first and third of these.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think the 55 (rather than 53) comes from two stations having their
> > > > > > normals zeroed? Again, from my notes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <QUOTE>
> > > > > > newbigfile90x.rev10.dat ** this version locked and sent to Philip
> > > > > > Brohan **
> > > > > > This revision incorporates the changes made as a result of
> > gridding, and
> > > > > > attempting to get the 1961-1990 mean normalised data to nudge 0. The
> > > > > > following
> > > > > > stations were deleted in the sense that their normals were set to
> > > > > > missing:
> > > > > > 606070 292 -2 -999
> > TIMIMOUN ALGERIA 19691974 101969
> > > > > > 814010 55 540 4 SAINT LAURENT MARONI FRENCH GUIANA
> > 19611990 101961
> > > > > > ..this was because the first only has a few values, with high
> > > > > > variability, and
> > > > > > the second consists of two decades of temperatures with one
> > of missing
> > > > > > values in between, and the earlier decade is significantly warmer
> > > > > > than the
> > > > > > second.
> > > > > > </QUOTE>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry - I don't even remember WRITING this never mind the context! I
> > > > > > would note that the final sentence could easily be misinterpreted;
> > > > > > what I should have said is that it indicated that the data was from
> > > > > > two disparate stations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can't locate a 4349 list..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Harry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2 Oct 2007, at 17:43, P.JonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Harry, Philip,
> > > > > >> Well the arch skeptic McIntyre has found the page Mike put
> > > > > >> up and it wasn't enough! I expected that, but not his use of
> > > > > >> nice language in this email!
> > > > > >> Anyway, I've said I would try and do something in when
> > > > > >> back from Australia - not next week (as that is busy as well),
> > > > > >> but the week after that.
> > > > > >> In the meantime, can you Harry send me a list of the 4349
> > > > > >> stations and the 55? I've emailed Philip in case Harry
> > > > > >> doesn't have the 4349 list. I know Harry has the 55.
> > > > > >> When I get back, I can then check the 4349 and 4138 and
> > > > > >> find what additional stations were extracted in the 2006
> > > > > >> paper. I know that I took out about 35 US sites as these
> > > > > >> had crept back despite being deemed 'urban' in work in
> > > > > >> the 1980s.
> > > > > >> I think the rest relate to changes in Australia, Canada
> > > > > >> and NZ wrt station number changing and newer series.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> No rush on this.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It is warm and sunny in Sydney. Woke at 2am, but did get 12hrs
> > > > > >> sleep, now have to co-ordinate this with the night-time here!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Cheers
> > > > > >> Phil
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ---------------------------- Original Message
> > > > > >> ----------------------------
> > > > > >> Subject: CRU Station Lists
> > > > > >> From: "Steve McIntyre" <stephen.mcintyreatXYZxyzronto.ca>
> > > > > >> Date: Tue, October 2, 2007 5:05 pm
> > > > > >> To: "'Phil Jones'" <p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk>
> > > > > >>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > >> ----
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Dear Phil, thank you for placing the list of CRU stations
> > online. In
> > > > > >> the webpage, I think that you will find that this is a good idea and
> > > > > >> will go some way to removing a pointless cause of criticism.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> You refer to "a look-up Table which associates some current WMO
> > > > > >> station
> > > > > >> numbers with the earlier values we are using." This is
> > necessary for
> > > > > >> the use of the list and I would appreciate it if you would
> > either send
> > > > > >> me a copy of it or place this online. The online listing shows 4138
> > > > > >> stations (as you observe), while Brohan et al listed 4349 stations
> > > > > >> (as
> > > > > >> you also observe.) Brohan et al 2006 refers to 55 stations being
> > > > > >> remove
> > > > > >> for duplication while the current list shows a larger
> > number. I would
> > > > > >> appreciate a list of the 4349 stations referred to in Brohan as
> > > > > >> well as
> > > > > >> the 55 stations then removed.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The webpage also states: "Additional updates in near-real
> > time (either
> > > > > >> monthly or annually) come directly from Australia, Canada, New
> > > > > >> Zealand,
> > > > > >> Austria, the Nordic countries and a few others." It would be
> > > > > >> helpful if
> > > > > >> the "few others" were specifically listed or alternately could you
> > > > > >> email
> > > > > >> me the names of these few others.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Concurrent with the information on stations, I think that
> > you should
> > > > > >> provide as complete a documentation as possible for your
> > calculations,
> > > > > >> including the provision of source code, as otherwiie you will
> > > > > >> undoubtedly continue to have piecemeal inquiries resulting from the
> > > > > >> presently incomplete documentation.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Regards, Steve McIntyre
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> <untitled-2>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ian "Harry" Harris
> > > > > > Climatic Research Unit
> > > > > > School of Environmental Sciences
> > > > > > University of East Anglia
> > > > > > Norwich NR4 7TJ
> > > > > > United Kingdom
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Philip Brohan, Palaeoclimate Scientist
> > > >Met Office Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research
> > > >Tel: +44 (0)1392 884574 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681
> > >
> > > Prof. Phil Jones
> > > Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
> > > School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
> > > University of East Anglia
> > > Norwich Email p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk
> > > NR4 7TJ
> > > UK
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >--
> >Philip Brohan, Palaeoclimate Scientist
> >Met Office Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research
> >Tel: +44 (0)1392 884574 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681
>
> Prof. Phil Jones
> Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
> School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
> University of East Anglia
> Norwich Email p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk
> NR4 7TJ
> UK
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Palaeoclimate Scientist
Met Office Hadley Centre

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