Saturday, April 14, 2012

3450.txt

cc: "Tim Osborn" <t.osbornatXYZxyz.ac.uk>, "Valerie Masson-Delmotte" <Valerie.MassonatXYZxyz.fr>, "Manuel Hutterli" <hutterliatXYZxyzmate.unibe.ch>, <carin.anderssonatXYZxyz.uib.no>, John Birks <John.BirksatXYZxyz.uib.no>, juerg.beer@eawag.ch, hufischer@awi-bremerhaven.de, Karin Holmgren <karin.holmgren@natgeo.su.se>, oyvind.paascheatXYZxyz.uib.no
date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:45:55 +0100
from: Eystein Jansen <eystein.jansenatXYZxyz.uib.no>
subject: RE: IMPRINT WP1 Task 1.1 latest budget and "workplan"
to: Keith Briffa <k.briffaatXYZxyz.ac.uk>, "Lotter, prof. dr. A.F." <A.F.LotteratXYZxyz.uu.nl>, "Ian Snowball" <Ian.SnowballatXYZxyzl.lu.se>, "Antti Ojala" <antti.ojalaatXYZxyz.fi>

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Hi,
as Keith apparently forecasted what I will say, here goes:
Going above 3.7mill, I do not have the full
overview of the total flexibility i.e. whether
there will be flexibility.
Yet we can always inflate budgets now, and go
above 3.7, but I do not see now where we can cut.
Increasing the overall budget is just fooling
ourselves as we are quite sure we will be cut if
we pass the funding decision. So increasing the
budget is just a way of moving problems in front
of us. If you think it needs to be larger, we can
do this within a few 100k Euros, that�s not a big
deal, but we will have to cute down at some point
in the future anyway.
I do hope, though, that some of the originally
planned work will happen in WP6 i.e. some of the
syntheses.

I think we must be very specific as to what WP1
will do: Improve and extend the best available
time series, provide data syntheses, focus only
on data that gives quantitative reconstructions
of climate physics parameters. I would be hoping
that what we get is a much more comprehensive
data base than was used in the recent Moberg et
al. paper, with decadal resolution and regional
spatial coverage.
Thus some of the proxies and archivesmay have to
be be ditched, and we should stay with only the
best and most relevant material. In this respect
I agree with Valerie that we need to closely
consider the data sets of relevance for
modelling. I think some times we might think too
much in terms of needing to have specific
loclities or archives on board, whereas it is the
wuality of the climate reconstruction
(quantifieable with decadal resolution) that
needs focus.
Probably not too much help in this. The bottom
line: Lets not argue ove ra few kEuros, add this
to 1.2 if needed. Then we can take the discussion
later. Look closely at what everybody proopses to
do in 1.2. Is all results going to me model
relevant?

Cheers,
Eystein

At 12:30 +0000 16-02-05, Keith Briffa wrote:
>I do realise the problem with scale and budget
>of work in 1.2 Andy , I thought all along that
>this area was likely to need more than
>proportional support. The real problem is that ,
>as I also expected, all tasks are way over
>budget. I do not believe Valerie or I will
>advocate a random cut to specific areas. We are
>asking Eystein about the possibility of moving
>above the 3.7 million. I feel the Holocene
>section is proportionally under funded in the
>light of earlier discussions on the importance
>of this . The trouble is I know what he will say.
>
>At 12:02 16/02/2005, Lotter, prof. dr. A.F. wrote:
>>Dear Keith and other involved task leaders,
>>
>>I agree that it makes sense to include the
>>Scandinavian varves into task 1.2 as there are
>>other varved series from central Europe that
>>qualify for this task (e.g. Poland, Germany). I
>>don't think sections B4 and B8 need a specific
>>adaptation as it is all in there already
>>(nevertheless, I shall have another look at it
>>and will let you know if I feel that specific
>>modifications are needed).
>>
>>However, I start getting a bit worried that
>>everything that needs to get out (for
>>scientific or budget reasons?) of whatever task
>>in WP 1 ends up in task 1.2. You are well aware
>>of the fact that task 1.2 will have to deal
>>with the following continental and marine
>>proxies:
>>- freshwater climate proxies (chironomids,
>>Cladocera, diatoms, ostracods, stable oxygen
>>isotopes, lake level data)
>>- varves
>>- marine climate proxies (foraminifera,
>>coccoliths, alkenone-derived temperatures
>>TEX86, UK37, IRD, etc)
>>- ice core data from Greenland and Antarctica
>>(stable isotopes, CO2, ions, dust, etc.)
>>
>>
>>To get an idea of what it exactly signifies to
>>take on the Scandinavian varves into task 1.2 I
>>need from the task leaders the deliverables as
>>well as the budgets of the two partners.
>>
>>As you know the Task 1.2 budget is now
>>already > 1 M*; any suggestions which parts we
>>can pass on to other task leaders to get the
>>budget back to a reasonable figure?
>>
>>Looking forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>*******************************************************************
>>Prof. Dr. Andre F. Lotter
>>
>>Dept. of Palaeoecology
>>Utrecht University
>>Laboratory of Palaeobotany and Palynology
>>Budapestlaan 4
>>NL-3584 CD Utrecht - The Netherlands
>>
>>Tel. direct +31 30 2532653
>>Tel. secretary +31 30 2532629
>>Fax +31 30 2535096
>>e-mail a.f.lotteratXYZxyz.uu.nl
>>WWW http://www.bio.uu.nl/~palaeo/Engels/engels.html
>>
>>*******************************************************************
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Keith Briffa [mailto:k.briffa@uea.ac.uk]
>>Sent: Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2005 10:57
>>To: Ian Snowball; Antti Ojala
>>Cc: Tim Osborn; Valerie Masson-Delmotte; Manuel
>>Hutterli; Lotter, prof. dr. A.F.;
>>carin.andersson@geo.uib.no
>>Subject: Re: IMPRINT WP1 Task 1.1 latest budget and "workplan"
>>
>>Andy and Carin
>>
>>will you review the messages below. I would like you to include the varve
>>work (and Ian and Anttti) completely into task 2 . At this stage we have to
>>make these decisions on a practical level , and I am convinced of the case
>>to keep the work centralised in task 2 , even though there are overlaps
>>with task 1. I realise this requires a reworking of budget . I am happy for
>>edited text on The B4 and b8 (not yet complete) sections.
>>
>>
>>At 08:38 16/02/2005, Ian Snowball wrote:
>>>Hello All,
>>>
>>>I agree completely with Antti. It is now up the the WP task leaders to
>>>agree which WP task GTK AND LU should be attached to. Do not split us, it
>>>would not make any sense to a referee. I would advise 1.2, but of course
>>>the more recent data data will contribute to 1.1.
>>>
>>> >From a scientific point of view, the Finnish varves will provide a more
>>> pristine natural signal over the last 500 years than the Swedish sites
>>> that are being studied just now. Between 10,000 and 500 cal BP, the sites
>>> can be considered pristine (apart from atmospheric pollution from central
>>> Europe).
>>>
>>>Ian.
>>>
>>>Ian Snowball (Docent/Associate Professor)
>>>GeoBiosphere Science Centre
>>>Department of Geology - Quaternary Sciences
>>>Lund University
>>>Sölvegatan 12
>>>SE-223 62 Lund
>>>Sweden
>>>Tel. +46 (0) 46 222 3952
>>>Fax. +46 (0) 46 222 4830
>>>Mob. +46 (0) 70 676 3915Return-path: <antti.ojalaatXYZxyz.fi>
>>>Received: from argus3.net.lu.se (argus3.net.lu.se [130.235.132.83])
>>> by cassandra.net.lu.se
>>> (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
>>> with ESMTP id <0IBZ000WETBBWGatXYZxyzsandra.net.lu.se> for
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>>> 16 Feb 2005 09:10:35 +0200
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:10:03 +0200
>>>From: Antti Ojala <antti.ojalaatXYZxyz.fi>
>>>Subject: Re: IMPRINT WP1 Task 1.1 latest budget and "workplan"
>>>In-reply-to: <12c2d4612c5f0d.12c5f0d12c2d46atXYZxyz.lu.se>
>>>X-Sender: aojalaatXYZxyzper.gtk.fi
>>>To: Ian Snowball <Ian.SnowballatXYZxyzl.lu.se>, Tim Osborn <t.osbornatXYZxyz.ac.uk>
>>>Cc: Keith Briffa <k.briffaatXYZxyz.ac.uk>,
>>> Valerie Masson-Delmotte <Valerie.MassonatXYZxyz.fr>,
>>> Manuel Hutterli <hutterliatXYZxyzmate.unibe.ch>
>>>Message-id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050216085419.029b4ad0atXYZxyzper.gtk.fi>
>>>MIME-version: 1.0
>>>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
>>>Content-type: text/html; charsetiso-8859-1=
>>>X-Spam-Flag: NO
>>>X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
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>> >X-LDC-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam,
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>>>References: <12c2d4612c5f0d.12c5f0d12c2d46atXYZxyz.lu.se>
>>>Original-recipient: rfc822;geol-isn@cassandra.net.lu.se
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>I agree with Ian.
>>>This is why I suggested that GTK's work (as well as work by Swedish varve
>>>group) should be at least divided between WP1 tasks 1.1. and 1.2., and
>>>even included entirely into task 1.2. if one choice should be made.
>>>
>>>What comes to Swedish and Finnish varve people working closely together
>>>and having the same aims (as we are doing in our nationally funded project
>>>all the time), is defenately one of our strengths. We can then better
>>>exclude local disturbances and peculiarities from our records and have
>>>best possible results in terms of regional climate fluctuations.
>>>So in IMPRINT we should have the same aims and goals too.
>>>
>>>antti.
>>>
>>>At 18:05 15.2.2005, Ian Snowball wrote:
>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>We'd better answer the following questions before IMPRINT WP1 gets out of
>>>control. What is the role of Swedish and Finnish varved lake sediments in
>>>WP1? We don't have quantified palaeoclimate data at annual resolution (who
>>>does?) I believe that we can prepare qualified decadal to century-scale
>>>records of winter precipitation(summer conditions for the last 8000-10000
>>>years, so I thought that fitted WP1 task 1.2 better. The raw data sets
>>>either exist, or they will be produced over the next 2-3 years as part of
>>>other Nationally funded projects.
>>>
>>>What do you think Antti? We should be doing coherent work. The varves do
>>>not stop at 2000 years and the dating error (%) is certainly no worse over
>>>the last 8000 years. The last 2000 years will contain human impact for at
>>>least the last 200-300 years in Sweden. You should reply to all.
>>>
>>>Ian Snowball (Docent/Associate Professor)
>>>GeoBiosphere Science Centre
>>>Department of Geology - Quaternary Sciences
>>>Lund University
>>>Sölvegatan 12
>>>SE-223 62 Lund
>>>Sweden
>>>Tel. +46 (0) 46 222 3952
>>>Fax. +46 (0) 46 222 4830
>>>Mob. +46 (0) 70 676 3915
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Tim Osborn <t.osbornatXYZxyz.ac.uk>
>>>Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:38 pm
>>>Subject: Re: IMPRINT WP1 Task 1.1 latest budget and "workplan"
>>>
>>> > At 07:36 10/02/2005, you wrote:
>>> > >Hi Tim,
>>> > >
>>> > >I am not involved in task 1.1, which is correct as far as I'm aware.
>>> > >
>>> > >Ian.
>>> > >
>>> > >Ian Snowball (Docent/Associate Professor)
>>> >
>>> > Dear Ian - quick question: which task are you in then? Antti
>>> > Ojala is
>>> > (currently) listed in task 1.1 - does this seem odd to split the
>>> > varved
>>> > lake work between 1.1 and 1.X? Cheers, Tim
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dr Timothy J Osborn
>>> > Climatic Research Unit
>>> > School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia
>>> > Norwich NR4 7TJ, UK
>>> >
>>> > e-mail: t.osbornatXYZxyz.ac.uk
>>> > phone: +44 1603 592089
>>> > fax: +44 1603 507784
>>> > web: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~timo/
>>> > sunclock: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~timo/sunclock.htm
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>**************************************************
>>>Dr. Antti Ojala
>>>Senior Scientist
>>>Geological Survey of Finland
>>>P.O. Box 96
>>>FIN-02150, Espoo
>>>Finland
>>>tel: +358-(0)20-550 2566
>>>mobile: +358-(0)40-8489796
>>>***************************************************
>>
>>--
>>Professor Keith Briffa,
>>Climatic Research Unit
>>University of East Anglia
>>Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K.
>>
>>Phone: +44-1603-593909
>>Fax: +44-1603-507784
>>
>>http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/
>
>--
>Professor Keith Briffa,
>Climatic Research Unit
>University of East Anglia
>Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K.
>
>Phone: +44-1603-593909
>Fax: +44-1603-507784
>
>http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/


--
______________________________________________________________
Eystein Jansen
Professor/Director
Bjerknes Centre for Climate Research and
Dep. of Earth Science, Univ. of Bergen
All�gaten 55
N-5007 Bergen
NORWAY
e-mail: eystein.jansenatXYZxyz.uib.no
Phone: +47-55-583491 - Home: +47-55-910661
Fax: +47-55-584330
-----------------------
The Bjerknes Training site offers 3-12 months fellowships to PhD students
More info at: www.bjerknes.uib.no/mcts
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