Thursday, May 10, 2012


date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:20:39 +0100 (BST)
from: David Lister <>
subject: Re: [Fwd: non-disclosing NMS]


I have had a good look at the filed letters and other hard-copy that Mike
Hulme passed to me when he went to Tyndall. There is no shortage of
letters that include restrictions for the use of the data. Unfortunately,
most of the correspondence relates to the transactions to acquire climate
normals - i.e. not time-series.

I have copied a selection of the letters. I have also found a string of
letters etc. which relate to a data transfer from DWD. This may be
directly relevant to time-series. I have put all of this into your pigeon

You mentioned the Mali data. I know that it was quite a time before
Daouda felt that he could let us have the data. I think that he got
permission (we have passed them to UKMO - at least) from someone. I have
no actual proof that they imposed use conditions. Given that he never
replies to e-mails, he is hardly likely to deny anything.

I know that the Syrians imposed use restrictions when Mike Hulme bought
some time-series from them. I do not know where the actual letter was
filed. I have failed to find it. I processed the files! In addition, I
was fairly sure that the Algerians imposed restrictions (I got the data
via Elena and Juerg) when they allowed us to use their data. The e-mail
from Mohamed Kadi, who gave permission, is not very explicit with respect
to use conditions (copy of this in the collecion of hard-copy). However,
Elena was unable to pass the data to us without the permission from

There must be plenty of other cases where use conditions have been imposed
but I can't be more specific at the moment.



On Thu, 24 May 2007 wrote:

> David,
> Thanks. Don't reply to Keenan. I'll do that
> next week. He wants countries, but I'm more than
> likely to send him dataset names as well as countries.
> Douda's data is likely one. I'm thinking only
> of temperature data here, so forget any precip-related
> letters.
> Cheers
> Phil
>> Phil,
>> A large number of series were collected by Mike Hulme and Mark New. Mike
>> kept a collection of letters etc. from NMAs and other sources. It could
>> be that some of the letters are useful. I don't recall many instances of
>> us having to agree to not passing data to third parties - but there must
>> be some.
>> I'll think about this .....
>> Cheers
>> David
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 wrote:
>>> David,
>>> This is from one of the arch skeptics. Can you have
>>> a think and begin to form a list of which datasets
>>> came with conditions, written or unwritten?
>>> I will do the same as well and send him something
>>> next week. It hasn't got to be complete or given
>>> much time, but I need to reply with something.
>>> Cheers
>>> Phil
>>> ---------------------------- Original Message
>>> ----------------------------
>>> Subject: non-disclosing NMS
>>> From: "D.J. Keenan" <>
>>> Date: Thu, May 24, 2007 9:53 am
>>> To: "Phil Jones" <>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Phil,
>>> According to Steve McIntyre, some of your raw station data
>>> was obtained from National Met Services who asked you to
>>> not disclose that data. Is this correct? If so, will you send
>>> me a list of the countries with which CRU/UEA has such
>>> non-disclosure agreements? Or, if it is easier, direct me
>>> to an appropriate person to ask for this?
>>> Sincerely, Doug

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