Friday, June 1, 2012

4766.txt

cc: "peter.thorne" <peter.thorneatXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk>, "Parker, David" <david.parkeratXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk>, "Kennedy, John" <john.kennedyatXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk>, "Brohan, Philip" <philip.brohanatXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk>, "Livingston, Linda" <linda.livingstonatXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk>
date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:46:26 +0100
from: Simon Tett <simon.tettatXYZxyzac.uk>
subject: Re: Freedom of Information Request
to: Phil Jones <p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk>

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I've got some of my old met office email -- back to early 2004. We are
talking about error models then so I think discussions about station
level records would have taken place in 2003. My recall is that we
agreed with Phil that the gridded product was jointly owned and that he
owned the station level records. The web site
(http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3/data/station_updates/) seems to
reflect this view.

I think when I left the met office I deleted all my email prior to 2004
so can't find a record of the email. It may well be associated with the
sub-contract to CRU to work on CRUTEM3 which I think was done in 2002/2003.

Simon

Phil Jones wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> There are several issues you should be aware of:
>
> 1. UEA has denied access to the data to McIntyre (and at least two
> others in the past) - in 2007. One of the three appealed and that
> appeal was rejected.
> We would look stupid if you released the data now. I can put your FOI
> person
> in touch with the one at UEA. I think they already know each other!
>
> We put up this page at the time
>
> http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/landstations/
>
> So they have a list of which stations are used.
>
> 2. I have signed agreements with some Met Services (European ones) in
> the 1990s
> that I would not pass on their data to third parties. The data could be
> used in the
> gridding though and gridded products made available. I never kept a
> list of which stations
> these were though, as I never thought such problems would arise.
>
> 3. Work on the land station data has been funded by the US Dept of
> Energy, and I
> have their agreement that the data needn't be passed on. I got this in
> 2007.
>
> 4. You web site says that anyone requesting the data should apply to
> me, so tell him
> that's what they should do. I think you should remove this sentence,
> by the way. It is
> this that has opened up the issue again.
>
> 5. The data aren't yours to release! Maybe there is no formal IPR
> agreement, but there
> is an implicit one.
>
> 6. We've altered the version that you have anyway. We're also in the
> process of doing
> more of this.
>
> 7. You'd need to waste your time combining the two parts of the data
> and removing
> the stations that don't get used.
>
> Cheers
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> At 11:53 13/05/2009, peter.thorne wrote:
>> Sorry. I should also have copied Phil in my previous. Apologies for
>> filling inboxes.
>>
>> On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 11:50 +0100, Parker, David wrote:
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > Thanks for responding to this. I have looked in my "Collaboration with
>> > CRU" folder but found nothing that specifically addresses IPR of data.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > David Parker, Climate Research scientist
>> > Met Office Hadley Centre FitzRoy Road Exeter Devon EX1 3PB United
>> > Kingdom
>> > Tel: +44 (0)1392 886649 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681
>> > Email: david.parkeratXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk
>> > Website: www.metoffice.gov.uk
>> >
>> > See our guide to climate change at
>> > http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/guide/
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Thorne, Peter (Climate Research)
>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:43 AM
>> > To: Kennedy, John
>> > Cc: Brohan, Philip; Parker, David; Simon Tett; Livingston, Linda
>> > Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Request
>> >
>> > Yes, we do. I guess Linda will know where it is. Simon Tett undertook
>> > it. cc'ing Simon and Linda here to provide direction to necessary
>> > paperwork.
>> >
>> > On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 10:54 +0100, Kennedy, John wrote:
>> > > Dear all,
>> > >
>> > > The FOI request from Mr McIntyre has arrived. Do we have a formal
>> > > agreement with Phil Jones that says what we can and can't do with his
>> > > data?
>> > >
>> > > John
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> > > From: Archer, Marion
>> > > Sent: 13 May 2009 10:32
>> > > To: Carroll, Fiona; Kennedy, John
>> > > Cc: Mathews, Stuart (Legal)
>> > > Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Request
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Fiona/John
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for your emails. As Mr McIntyre has raised this request
>> > > for information and the Met Office hold the information for whatever
>> > > reason, we still need to consider releasing it. We will need to
>> do a
>> > > public interest test on the pros and cons for release, for which I
>> > > will need your input.
>> > >
>> > > Can you let me know why we are unable to release the information?
>> > > Was the information given in confidence to the Met Office? Do you
>> > > have any documentation from Phil Jones regarding this? We need to
>> > > show we are considering both sides of the argument for release as Mr
>> > > McIntyre may go to the Information Commissioner and if we cannot show
>> > > a fair and open public interest test has been undertaken, they may
>> > > find in his favour.
>> > >
>> > > If you wish to meet to discuss, please let me know.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > >
>> > > Marion
>> > >
>> > > Marion Archer
>> > > FOI/Data Protection Manager
>> > > Met Office Alexandria 1
>> > > Fitzroy Road Exeter Devon EX1 3PB United Kingdom
>> > > Direct Tel: +44(0)1392 884036 Fax 0870 900 5050
>> > > email: marion.archeratXYZxyzoffice.gov.uk
>> > > http://www.metoffice.gov.uk
>> > >
>> > > See our guide to climate change at
>> > > http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/guide/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> > > From: Carroll, Fiona
>> > > Sent: 12 May 2009 16:46
>> > > To: Archer, Marion
>> > > Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Request
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Marion,
>> > > The customer has already been in touch with John Kennedy who
>> explained
>> > > to him that the data set requested does not belong to the Met Office,
>> > > and therefore we do not have permission to pass it on. The data
>> set is
>> > > held by Phil Jones at the University of East Anglia, and the customer
>> > > should make a direct request to him. Below is John's response to the
>> > > original request.
>> > > Fiona
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> > > From: Kennedy, John
>> > > Sent: 12 May 2009 16:00
>> > > To: Carroll, Fiona
>> > > Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Request
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Fiona,
>> > >
>> > > I wondered when this would arrive. Mr McIntyre, a noted climate
>> > > sceptic, is documenting all of this on his blog:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5962
>> > >
>> > > The "archive of raw land surface temperature observations used to
>> > > create CRUTEM3" is not ours to give away. The basic archive of
>> > > observations was put together by Phil Jones at the Climatic Research
>> > > Unit at the University of East Anglia. We collaborate with Phil so he
>> > > sent us the data with the proviso (as I understand it) that we should
>> > > only use it to create the gridded data set CRUTEM3. We are not to
>> pass
>> > > it on to other people. It says as much on the web page that Stephen
>> > > McIntyre refers to.
>> > >
>> > > http://hadobs.metoffice.com/indicators/index.html
>> > >
>> > > What we can provide are the data that we gather and quality
>> control on
>> > > a monthly basis.
>> > >
>> > > http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3/data/station_updates/
>> > >
>> > > Stephen McIntyre has already contacted me by email asking for the
>> data
>> > > that he is now pursuing with this FOI request. I told him that we
>> > > couldn't give him the full archive and that he should contact its
>> > > owner, Phil Jones. I also told him where to find the data he could
>> > > have. This is what I said:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Stephen McIntyre,
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for your interest in our datasets.
>> > >
>> > > Some of the data is available from the website. Each month we receive
>> > > CLIMAT reports at the Met Office, which are quality controlled, and
>> > > used
>> > > to update the gridded CRUTEM3 dataset. The quality controlled CLIMAT
>> > > station data for recent years can be found here:
>> > >
>> > > http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3/data/station_updates/
>> > >
>> > > However, this is not all the station data used in CRUTEM3. Most of
>> the
>> > > station data was given to us by Phil Jones under conditions that
>> don't
>> > > allow us to redistribute it. If you want the full archive, you will
>> > > have
>> > > to contact him.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > > John
>> > >
>> > > John
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> > > From: Carroll, Fiona
>> > > Sent: 12 May 2009 15:27
>> > > To: Kennedy, John
>> > > Cc: Archer, Marion
>> > > Subject: FW: Freedom of Information Request
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > John,
>> > > Please could you assist marion with this FOI request.
>> > > Many thanks.
>> > > Fiona
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> > > From: Marion Archer [mailto:enquiries@metoffice.gov.uk]
>> > > Sent: 12 May 2009 14:47
>> > > To: Carroll, Fiona
>> > > Subject: FWD: Freedom of Information Request
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Fiona
>> > >
>> > > Please see email below and can you let me know who the best person
>> > > would be to send it to please.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > >
>> > > Marion
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----------------------- Forwarded Message -----------------------
>> > >
>> > > From: Steve McIntyre <stephen.mcintyreatXYZxyzronto.ca>
>> > > To: "<enquiries@metoffice.gov.uk>"
>> > > Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:27:00 +0100
>> > > Subject: Freedom of Information Request
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sirs,
>> > > I request the "archive of raw land surface temperature observations
>> > > used to create CRUTEM3" as held by the Hadley Center (referred to on
>> > > your webpage http://hadobs.metoffice.com/indicators/index.html )
>> under
>> > > the FOI Act or other applicable legislation.
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for your attention, Stephen McIntyre
>> --
>> Peter Thorne Climate Research Scientist
>> Met Office Hadley Centre, FitzRoy Road, Exeter, EX1 3PB
>> tel. +44 1392 886552 fax +44 1392 885681
>> www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs
>
> Prof. Phil Jones
> Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
> School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
> University of East Anglia
> Norwich Email p.jonesatXYZxyz.ac.uk
> NR4 7TJ
> UK
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

--
Simon Tett
Chair of Earth System Dynamics
School of Geosciences
The University of Edinburgh
Tel:+44-(0)131-650-5341
Fax: +44 (0)131 668 3184
email:simon.tett@ed.ac.uk
Room 351, Grant Institute,
The King's Buildings,
West Mains Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JW
UK
http://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/people/person.html?indv=1592

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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